Forums - MvC2: How to stop Blackheart? Show all 30 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- MvC2: How to stop Blackheart? (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=56661) Posted by monwear on 03:08:2002 06:20 PM: MvC2: How to stop Blackheart? I have a friend who is really good with Blackheart. How do i avoid his irritating demons? Help me Posted by ShinRyuX on 03:08:2002 06:52 PM: storm/aaa is really good against BH. storm doesnt really need aaa to beat BH but makes it easier. Essentially any rush down like storm, mag, cammy will be really good. Strider/Doom/Ken is also great against BH. The best aaa against BH are probably either Capcom or Ken. Ken is able to cut through the demons since it is a physical attack and hit BH. Although Ken may not be a good point character like cammy, ken's assist is more useful.....it works against BH/Doom or vice versa quite well and against other trapping teams. Try to get on top of BH by air dashing and lock him down. Block when you have to and try not to be blindly aggressive. You'll run into demons that way. BH was designed to turtle/chip so be patient. Once in a while do hail and if he was throwing demons during a sj. you will nail him for a lot of damage. Also, if he blocks the hail, you can then air dash to him while calling assit (like sent drones) to get near. Then keep him locked up with low pokes and repeated triangle jumps. If you corner BH with storm, then you can really put the squeeze on him. BH cannot do anything except try to sj out or block. Just kill him. OR use Cable for simplicity haha. This is very tough for BH and this match is boring as hell. He can't throw too many demons since Cable will often be in direct line of fire with BH. All cable has to do jump and super. Cable can even take the hit on HOD super and nail BH before he recovers from forced dash. Cable can also AHVB between the inferno and HOD. Essentially, Cable can take away all of BH's weapons. The only way that BH can land HOD on cable with safety is to DHC into something like storm's hail or sent's HSF. If BH lands HOD when you are cornered, then you can't punish him since he doesn't do forced dash. Posted by Orion_of_Chaos on 03:08:2002 07:18 PM: Big problem wih blackheart is that he has no jumping attacks that hit above him... Use storm, Magneto, Sentinel, or anyone with an airdash or flight and go above him and hit him... Nowadays people have tons of ways for Magneto to rape him, so Blckheart's primary use as an anti-Magneeto went out the window... Storm can kil blackheart with ease... Hailstorms stop superjumping and she has a pretty easy infinite that she can get him with... Sentinel just frying an's that shit... Guile/Chalie, Ken, and Commando AAAs can stop superjumping with demons too... also, you could just wavedash under the superjump demons... Blackheart's still good, but I think that he's dropped to the second tier because anyone in the top tier kills him pretty easily... Posted by ytwojay on 03:08:2002 08:12 PM: anti air assist. captain commando, ken, or cammy work well. also, anyone fast like storm or magneto can try to wavedash under his superjumping demons, and characters like cable can follow BH up and try to shoot him down. and if youre desperate, you can try iceman. his fp icebeam goes at the angle of BH's demons, and will cut through and hit him. hope this helped. Posted by IcarusDownworks on 03:08:2002 08:32 PM: Half the shit that has been said here doesn't work against people who have been playing Blackheart for a long time, and have developed a defensive, patient style of play. Personally, against charecters like Magneto, Storm, and Cable, after I throw my first set of demons (hp or rh, it doesn't matter) I dash back and just block all the way down. If you have strong defense, people playing rushdown charecters like Storm and Magneto get frustrated and they will eventually make a mistake. If you are in the corner and you are rushing BH down, he doesn't just have to sit there and block the whole time, calling an assist like Commando or Cyke will break up the rushdown long enough for him to jump out. So, how do you beat a defensive, patient BH? You have to be even more patient than him. Wait for him to make a mistake, he will eventually, and when he does, you better capitalize. Even the most patient players can get flustered when they mess up once and eat a 60% combo. Posted by DeathFromAbove on 03:09:2002 01:17 AM: quote: Originally posted by Orion_of_Chaos Big problem wih blackheart is that he has no jumping attacks that hit above him... Use storm, Magneto, Sentinel, or anyone with an airdash or flight and go above him and hit him As long as BH is moving up, his LP is going to beat most characters attacks. Sent's frying pan, IM's down+HP, Mags airdashing HK, Storm's airdashing LK are the exceptions, not the rule. Anything can beat anything with proper timing and spacing, but guessing on this at SJ height, BH wins more often than loses except against the above characters, and risks less (except against IM/WM/Storm). I've beaten (stupidly played) Iceman with BH based only on this principle, because the opponent just couldn't stop jumping to Icebeam. That should never happen. quote: Originally posted by IcarusDownworks Half the shit that has been said here doesn't work against people who have been playing Blackheart for a long time, and have developed a defensive, patient style of play. Personally, against charecters like Magneto, Storm, and Cable, after I throw my first set of demons (hp or rh, it doesn't matter) I dash back and just block all the way down. If you have strong defense, people playing rushdown charecters like Storm and Magneto get frustrated and they will eventually make a mistake. If you are in the corner and you are rushing BH down, he doesn't just have to sit there and block the whole time, calling an assist like Commando or Cyke will break up the rushdown long enough for him to jump out. So, how do you beat a defensive, patient BH? You have to be even more patient than him. Wait for him to make a mistake, he will eventually, and when he does, you better capitalize. Even the most patient players can get flustered when they mess up once and eat a 60% combo. Actually, you just have to intentionally set up throws to take him out of turtling. For instance, with Storm, you get a shot at making him block, you do triangle jump LP and do the LP way up at his head height, call AAA assist and HK throw just as you land. Much less risky than tick-throw on the ground...good damage. Guaranteed damage the 1st time you do it, and screws with the opponent's conception of being able to wait you out. Mags does the same thing with airdash LK and HK throw, and gets pretty much free rushdown afterwards since HK throw knocks down, and BH has nothing on earth that resembles a wakeup attack. Hmmmm....I've been playing BH forever, and I haven't developed a patient, defensive style. Its more of a frantic offensive style based on chip damage and batterying for counter->super. -DFA Posted by *NEDO* on 03:09:2002 01:39 AM: I find Cammy (aa) assist alot more annoying than CaoComm (aa) assist whenecver I play BH..........I think BH owns all rushdown Charc though......keep that in mind when you play Mag vs BH. Posted by strider_hien on 03:09:2002 04:50 AM: quote: Originally posted by *NEDO* I find Cammy (aa) assist alot more annoying than CaoComm (aa) assist whenecver I play BH..........I think BH owns all rushdown Charc though......keep that in mind when you play Mag vs BH. Cammy's aaa bounces off Bh's demon, i personally find CapCom more annoying. BH does not own rushdown characters, he has trouble against rushdown, but it doesn't mean that he sucks against them. I like to jump back and fp and call an assist, this helps keepaway, but it doesn't always work. I hate playing rushdown people when i'm using my BH, it's hella hard to beat. Posted by Blackheart2097 on 03:09:2002 05:33 AM: quote: Originally posted by IcarusDownworks Half the shit that has been said here doesn't work against people who have been playing Blackheart for a long time, and have developed a defensive, patient style of play. Personally, against charecters like Magneto, Storm, and Cable, after I throw my first set of demons (hp or rh, it doesn't matter) I dash back and just block all the way down. If you have strong defense, people playing rushdown charecters like Storm and Magneto get frustrated and they will eventually make a mistake. If you are in the corner and you are rushing BH down, he doesn't just have to sit there and block the whole time, calling an assist like Commando or Cyke will break up the rushdown long enough for him to jump out. So, how do you beat a defensive, patient BH? You have to be even more patient than him. Wait for him to make a mistake, he will eventually, and when he does, you better capitalize. Even the most patient players can get flustered when they mess up once and eat a 60% combo. perfectly said. i totally agree. i don't use blackheart as much as i use to but he doesn't get "owned". shit i do better against cable with blackheart then i do with sentinel. i'm trying to master the dash cancel after inferno HOD that way i can't get AHVBx3. once i learn that it's a wrap i'll own cable for free. a lot of you seem to forget that blackheart is a VERY annoying character. when someone is useing a rushdown character if they can't get in they get really fustrated. when fustrated you make mistakes. crounching lk, mk, capcom assist, inferno HOD will be waiting for him. oops there goes half of magneto's life. so what you say about blackheart, i could care less i still kick everyones ass with him so if you say he sucks then i don't really care. it won't effecting me when i play cause i win when i use him. Posted by MadDogMiXon on 03:09:2002 05:58 AM: You have to out think a really good bh and stay patient, they are really just fucking with you Posted by strider86 on 03:09:2002 08:46 AM: quote: Originally posted by MadDogMiXon You have to out think a really good bh and stay patient, they are really just fucking with you one thing someone didn't mention is that blackheart is good but yeah stay under him and basically try to block damage him with doom. since doom cancels his capcom rush that shit down. with strider doom you have to play it real cautious stay under him and build meter. when his ass is on the ground oros his ass. nuff said! owning blackheart is easier said then done but it's possible! Posted by Dasrik on 03:09:2002 09:13 AM: You must defeat his jumpback fierce to stand a chance. Posted by Ouroborus on 03:09:2002 09:18 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dasrik You must defeat his jumpback fierce to stand a chance. LOL Just like my old sig. "You must defeat Doom to stand a chance" - Strider Hiryu Posted by *NEDO* on 03:09:2002 09:32 AM: quote: Originally posted by strider_hien Cammy's aaa bounces off Bh's demon, i personally find CapCom more annoying. BH does not own rushdown characters, he has trouble against rushdown, but it doesn't mean that he sucks against them. I like to jump back and fp and call an assist, this helps keepaway, but it doesn't always work. I hate playing rushdown people when i'm using my BH, it's hella hard to beat. You can easily bait a Capcomm user.......wait, assist InfernoXXSuper.....Half Capcomm gone that easy. Also....you can poke Capcomm out of his assist before he comes out unlike that Dam Ken (aa).! Posted by strider_hien on 03:09:2002 01:55 PM: quote: Originally posted by *NEDO* You can easily bait a Capcomm user.......wait, assist InfernoXXSuper.....Half Capcomm gone that easy. Also....you can poke Capcomm out of his assist before he comes out unlike that Dam Ken (aa).! Yeah that's true, BH's pokes hit out a lot of assists, he's got some insane pokes. But if you do an Inferno xx HOD on Capcom when you are facing cable, you are gonna get hit by an AHVB, that's why it's not always safe to punish the assist. Posted by squirrelishere on 03:15:2002 05:30 PM: bh, for me, is one easy guy to beat. all you have to use are characters with speed. BH has moves that leave him open for a sec, and if you have a fast guy like Mag, you can nail him before BH recovers. same goes with Cable, you gotta be quick to nail him. timing is everything. i'm not saying i'm an experienced player, but when i play people who know how to use BH, i always seem to beat BH like nothing. I don't know how to do infinites, hell, I don't even take out my assists that much, but yet i somehow seem to beat people that do. why is that? i don't know, just gotta play smart and observe Posted by Orochi Kyosuke on 03:15:2002 06:12 PM: quote: Originally posted by squirrelishere bh, for me, is one easy guy to beat. all you have to use are characters with speed. BH has moves that leave him open for a sec, and if you have a fast guy like Mag, you can nail him before BH recovers. same goes with Cable, you gotta be quick to nail him. timing is everything. i'm not saying i'm an experienced player, but when i play people who know how to use BH, i always seem to beat BH like nothing. I don't know how to do infinites, hell, I don't even take out my assists that much, but yet i somehow seem to beat people that do. why is that? i don't know, just gotta play smart and observe aahhhhhhh...You've never fought someone who knows how to use Blackheart, sorry. Posted by DeathFromAbove on 03:15:2002 11:14 PM: quote: Originally posted by squirrelishere bh, for me, is one easy guy to beat. all you have to use are characters with speed. BH has moves that leave him open for a sec, and if you have a fast guy like Mag, you can nail him before BH recovers. same goes with Cable, you gotta be quick to nail him. timing is everything. i'm not saying i'm an experienced player, but when i play people who know how to use BH, i always seem to beat BH like nothing. I don't know how to do infinites, hell, I don't even take out my assists that much, but yet i somehow seem to beat people that do. why is that? i don't know, just gotta play smart and observe Speed beats BH because you can hit him during the startup of damn near everything he does. He has plenty of moves with no lag, or negative lag. -DFA Posted by GeekBoy on 03:15:2002 11:19 PM: Think of BH like Cable, just without AHVB. She more or less has the same weaknesses, the overhead quadrant as well as huge size. Doom can really fuck up BH by just doing j.FP with an assist, if the assist happens to hit, go for the air combo and DHC into whatever. DFA said it best, speed takes care of BH the best, just rush that shit down. Posted by DeathFromAbove on 03:15:2002 11:41 PM: quote: Originally posted by GeekBoy Think of BH like Cable, just without AHVB. She more or less has the same weaknesses, the overhead quadrant as well as huge size. Not really. BH loves being at a different height than his opponent. Any situation where this is true is basically good for BH. Cable hates being at a different height than his opponent. The only exception is against the characters for whom SJing is a screwup (they have no attacks or maneuvers to protect their landing). -DFA Posted by EEK on 03:16:2002 06:47 AM: quote: Originally posted by GeekBoy Think of BH like Cable, just without AHVB. She more or less has the same weaknesses... "She"?! Damn, that bitch ugly... Posted by *NEDO* on 03:16:2002 08:04 PM: quote: Originally posted by EEK "She"?! Damn, that bitch ugly... Hmmmmmmmmm...........I'd still hit that though!........No wait, no I wouldn't. The only BH that gives me trouble is dam TJ Mystic's!!!!! Let's all get together and rip out a part of his brain that allows him to play Blackheart!!..........*laughs to himself* ha ha ha ha....I am so screwed in the head. Posted by Blackheart2097 on 03:16:2002 08:41 PM: quote: Originally posted by MadDogMiXon You have to out think a really good bh and stay patient, they are really just fucking with you yeah i totally agree. i pick blackheart just to piss people off. when you pissed off you don't think, when you don't think you LOSE. Blackheart players are just playing mind games with you. Posted by strider_hien on 03:17:2002 01:47 AM: quote: Originally posted by Blackheart2097 yeah i totally agree. i pick blackheart just to piss people off. when you pissed off you don't think, when you don't think you LOSE. Blackheart players are just playing mind games with you. My friend likes to poke me with c.wk, c.mk a few times, then the 2nd or 3rd time, he pokes with an aaa, then links it with the inferno xx hod. So damn annoying, i hate his damn pokes. Posted by Raz0r on 03:17:2002 04:53 AM: Step 1: Load your gun. Step 2: Fire. Posted by Blackheart2097 on 03:17:2002 04:57 AM: quote: Originally posted by Raz0r Step 1: Load your gun. Step 2: Fire. OMG Raz0r has gone to the otherside!!! leave that CvS2 crap alone Posted by ghettokimchi on 03:18:2002 07:08 AM: if someone is beating you with blackheart... hes probably just a better player... Posted by Rockefeller on 03:18:2002 08:05 AM: wait for blackheart to drop his assist, then superjump and AHVB because blackheart will also be superjumping roundhouse to cover his assist Posted by GeekBoy on 03:18:2002 08:11 AM: quote: Originally posted by Rockefeller wait for blackheart to drop his assist, then superjump and AHVB because blackheart will also be superjumping roundhouse to cover his assist Good point. There aren't many great BH's to note besides Alex Valle. He doesn't really do anything that special, he plays smart. Posted by Dasrik on 03:18:2002 09:44 AM: quote: Originally posted by Rockefeller wait for blackheart to drop his assist, then superjump and AHVB because blackheart will also be superjumping roundhouse to cover his assist Oh my God. This will only work on IDIOTS. If I'm Blackheart and in close range to drop an assist on Cable and in a position to superjump, WHY WOULD I DO SJ.ROUNDHOUSE? If Cable superjumps on Blackheart, that's great - my assist gets off scot free. If he tries to AHVB my assist, THEN I MIGHT do SJ.RH on him if I get a good angle. Chances are I'll just airdash and super Cable. Only time I'd ever do SJ.RH after dropping an assist on Cable is if it's one I expect him to have to block (ie. Commando). Then I do sj.rh, airdash. Free cover, and it's near impossible for Cable to AHVB me before I recover from the airdash. All times are GMT. The time now is 12:54 AM. Show all 30 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.